Yes Virginia, There Are Homosexuals – In Spite Of Mean-Spirited Marriage Amendments

You don't need to be a lawyer to write a marriage amendment apparently, but you could use some common sense. A high school student could have written a better amendment than the proposed Virginia marriage amendment. And if it weren't so poorly written, this topic wouldn't be the subject of debate and discussion all across the Commonwealth.

Just using words like "approximate" and "qualities . . . of marriage" for example --- these words mean something different to every one who reads them.

At least, you will have to admit that for a constitutional amendment to our Bill of Rights, this language is far from ideal. And more importantly is not easily and consistently communicated to the general populace.

But why tiptoe around this. Delegate Robert Marshall has admitted in interviews and debates that he seized onto this quest after Lawrence v. Texas and his homophobia and obsession with sodomy (overlooking that oral sex within heterosexual couples is sodomy – and studies indicate it is rather common).

And taking advantage of the fact that homosexuality is a closeted concept for Virginians and something they are uncomfortable with and embarrassed to discuss, and with the general negative bias and prejudice in our society against homosexuals, he sponsored legislation.

He didn’t have to break new ground, this initiative had precedence in other states, and the Republican good ole boys, slyly winked knowing this would help propel their base into the polls.

And overlooking the importance of the first change to our Bill of Rights, the heart of our constitutional body, he rammed the legislation through committee, at the dawn of the legislative session, with little notice, and less than an hour of debate (I was there). And then essentially dared anyone to vote against it in the legislature or be painted as pro-queer. Talk about the tyranny of the majority.

This was not a rational debate based on facts, or based on our historical notion of extending rights. This was based on political opportunism, and homophobia. And on lies that homosexuals are bad, homosexual couples are unnatural, homosexuals can not appropriately raise children, and that homosexuals somehow threaten marriage and are somehow part of the problem with disintegrating family values.

In other words the 250,000 homosexuals in Virginia are being made scapegoats for the ills of society and inability and lack of political courage to face up to the real issues of rampant divorce and attendant effects on children, children out of wedlock, and difficulties of one parent families in raising children.

Now, Delegate Robert Marshall, please tell me where you disagree with the above.

Comments

Mark said…
Bill,
Could you please stop using the term homophobia? I (we) are not afraid of anyone or anything.

And on lies that homosexuals are bad,

Some are, some are not. You seem like a decent guy.

homosexual couples are unnatural,

No, just the sexual expressions / acts.

homosexuals can not appropriately raise children,

Talk about bad language, "appropriately"? Better than One man One woman, No! Homosexuals fall way short Bill!


and that homosexuals somehow threaten marriage and are somehow part of the problem with disintegrating family values.

Redefining Marriage to mean anything, does indeed threaten marriage. Celebrating all forms of sexual expression does indeed disinegrate the family and society has a whole. Homosexuality included, but not limited to.
Bill Garnett said…
I’m sorry Mark but the facts are on my side and I don’t retract a thing.

You are homophobic – the definition of homophobia is: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals – and that’s you.

And decades of scientific and medical studies say you are wrong – homosexuality is a state of being and not a moral choice. And homosexuals raise children just as well as do heterosexuals. That’s the conclusion of the peer reviewed professional studies. I think the only thing you have on your side is the use of fear, ignorance, and superstition.

I don’t know why you are so obsessed with withholding equal rights from us. And why you don’t instead focus on the real issues affecting marriage and children: rampant divorce and attendant effects on children, children out of wedlock, and difficulties of one parent families in raising children. Is it that it is so much easier to strike out against a small minority?

I will be happy to engage in a debate with you as long as you are willing to agree to the reasonable rules of debate, which include acknowledging facts and logic
Mark said…
I will be happy to engage in a debate with you as long as you are willing to agree to the reasonable rules of debate, which include acknowledging facts and logic

You're pompus jack ass Bill, and a hyprocrite.

As for your lies about decades of scientific and medical studies say you are wrong – homosexuality is a state of being and not a moral choice. And homosexuals raise children just as well as do heterosexuals. That’s the conclusion of the peer reviewed professional studies.

Bring them on! I'll spoon feed you the truth, tear these so called studies to shreds and bring a little Light to your love of darkness.

You are homophobic – the definition of homophobia is: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals – and that’s you.

Then you may be called a Godaphobe - the irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against God fearing people, or God - and that's you.

And why you don’t instead focus on the real issues affecting marriage and children: rampant divorce and attendant effects on children, children out of wedlock, and difficulties of one parent families in raising children.

I do Bill, it's called exposing evil, ie the celebrating of sexual immorality, the destruction of marriage, and reducing God's word to hate speech.
Mark,
Be nice. There is no need for name calling. It just makes you look irrational.
Mark said…
Megan,
Thanks for the advice, but I call 'em like I see 'em. Actually, I was being very nice. :)
Mark,

Go ahead and call it like you see it. But could you use facts and reason instead of name calling, insults and posturing? Is this how you spread the message of God’s love? I’m not asking you to agree with Bill but show some respect.
Mark said…
Megan,

Did you miss this comment by Bill?You are homophobic – the definition of homophobia is: irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals – and that’s you.

Shall I call you to get a proper godly reponse?

Is this how you spread the message of God’s love?

Actually, Megan you would do well to remember no one can appreciate, understand, and rejoice in God's love, until their heart has been convicted by God's law.

again, thanks for your wisdom.
Sure, Mark, call anytime.(or IM if you prefer) But that particular comment was not what I was talking about.

Surely you have not forgotten how Christ taught us to treat others. (John 13:34)And in case you take the phrase "one another" to mean only fellow Christians that you agree with let me refer you to Matthew 5:43-47.

It is quickly becoming a pet peeve of mine to see Christians resort to insults and hatred when discussing difficult topics.

Come on, Mark, shine.
Bill Garnett said…
Mark, I am a Christian and I don’t know how to communicate this to you in a way you will get it. But you appear to have a psychological problem suggesting counseling and anger management. Perhaps if you would ask those around you who care about you, then you might get a confirmation you could accept.

And Megan, thank you, you and I disagree but I retain an enormous respect for you, as I sense you have a Christian heart.
Mark said…
But you appear to have a psychological problem suggesting counseling and anger management. Perhaps if you would ask those around you who care about you, then you might get a confirmation you could accept.

LOL! ok Bill. Like I said, and I stand by it. You are a pompus ass. But, seriously, thanks for that belly laugh.

And Megan, thank you, you and I disagree but I retain an enormous respect for you, as I sense you have a Christian heart.

In other words, Bill has not heard anything that would convict his heart. He would rather justify his own acts, human wisdom, and re-write God's very clear sexual boundaries for our lives. The sword of God's word, prepares the heart for His grace. When that is presented to him, he makes personal attacks on the imperfect messenger. Typical homosexual activist mode of operation.


Megan,
It is quickly becoming a pet peeve of mine to see Christians resort to insults and hatred when discussing difficult topics.

I see. Perhaps a new 'pet peeve' should be warning other Christians to stop bowing down to sexual immorailty and start shamlessly teaching God's way, not their way. Oh I don't hate Bill, I love him enough to tell him he is wrong, not because I say so, but becuase God's word does.

Oh and Megan,
I love you!
Bill Garnett said…
Mark,

Everyone has their own personal religious beliefs and, at least in America, I have the right to my own.

If you have any facts to share or rational argument, then fine. Otherwise why don’t you go rant somewhere else.
Mark said…
But you appear to have a psychological problem suggesting counseling and anger management.

If you have any facts to share or rational argument, then fine. Otherwise why don’t you go rant somewhere else.

Those are your comments Bill, not mine.

Are you a Doctor?
If not, then it may be you that is irrational and in need of help.

Calling yourself a 'Christian' means what Bill? Once I know that, I'll be happy to correct you, using the Bible, if that's ok with you Mr. Christian Bill.

Oh Bill,
I love you!
Mark,

By all means, teach! Just do it in a way that people can tell that it is with love. Being condescending and then saying, "Oh, I love you" doesn't cut it.

And I would like to know what you consider a Christian to be. I’m curious if I am one or not.
And Megan, thank you, you and I disagree but I retain an enormous respect for you, as I sense you have a Christian heart.

In other words, Bill has not heard anything that would convict his heart. He would rather justify his own acts, human wisdom, and re-write God's very clear sexual boundaries for our lives. The sword of God's word, prepares the heart for His grace. When that is presented to him, he makes personal attacks on the imperfect messenger. Typical homosexual activist mode of operation.


Why would it bother you so much that people who disagree can still maintain respect for one another? Sometimes a quiet gentle voice can acomplish what an all out assault cannot. While Bill and I may never completly agree on everything I am pretty sure that we could at least openly discuss issues without someone tuning out.

I ask you, Mark, what good does it do you to teach God's Word if those you are speaking to have tuned you out because of your combative style? Christians should be preaching God's love and reconciliation. Let the Spirit change the heart.
Mark said…
I ask you, Mark, what good does it do you to teach God's Word if those you are speaking to have tuned you out because of your combative style? Christians should be preaching God's love and reconciliation. Let the Spirit change the heart.

Megan,
I really like you. Bill and I have a small history. It started out ok, then he accused me and any others that support the marriage Amendment of being the New KKK, Natzi like, bigoted, ignorant and his favorite, Homophobe (whatever that means) and the like.

That dear Megan, is when I stopped being gentle. I hope that's ok with you. I am really not sure where you think I am yelling or loud? I am writing, not in caps even.

I don't mind that we disagree, I mind when people like Bill willingly lie and trash God in the name of Christ. Have you even read his comments to me?

what good does it do you to teach God's Word if those you are speaking to have tuned you out because of your combative style?

Bill thinks about it, whether he will ever admitt it, we both at lest think about it. That's when the spirit is Urging and knocking, the rest is up to us.

I see your a smart young woman Megan, but let me give you this tid bit.

A mist in the pulpit creates a fog in the pews. :)

Your bother in Christ.
Thanks for the flattery :-)

Be gentle as long as your opponent doesn't offend you. Interesting idea. Do you have some scripture to back it up? (Turn the other cheek and all that)

Please don't think I have a problem with you teaching what the Bible says. I just think you could do it without the name calling.

You and Bill may have a history but you don't have a history with everyone who reads. As a Christian you are representing Christ. When you do that publicly I think it is important to consider what kind of message you are sending. It is, at best, a mixed message to stand up for God's Word and then call someone a "pompous jack ass". I would consider that to be mist in the pulpit as well.

It is a sad fact that there are people who don’t know the gospel but they do know we are supposed to be loving and kind. When we fail to live up to what little they do know I think our chances of sharing the good news successfully becomes slimmer and slimmer.

I hope you will take this as encouragement to return to your gentle ways. It can be frustrating but I think you know it is God’s way.
Mark said…
Megan,
Well said. Thank you, and I will do my best. :)

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