Top 10 Consequences Of Voting Yes On The Virginia Marriage Amendment

The following is offered as there are opposing lists being circulated by the religious right. So, here are my Top 10 Consequences of Voting Yes on the Virginia Marriage Amendment.

1. Voting Yes is unnecessary, as marriage is already defined in Virginia by statute.

2. Voting Yes ignores the facts – ignores the accepted medicine and science on this subject.

3. Voting Yes to constitutionalize such a socially charged issue, in flux, is clearly in opposition to Jeffersonian Democracy.

4. Voting Yes is an unabashed ploy by cynical Republicans to get out their base.

5. Voting Yes is in opposition to the maintaining of a bright line between church and state.

6. Voting Yes could bring about a myriad of unintended consequences to unmarried heterosexual couples.

7. Voting Yes will continue to paint Virginia as a cultural backwater and an unfriendly place for the location of new high tech businesses.

8. Voting Yes will hardly benefit the thousands of children in gay families nor give hope to many orphans who are passed over by heterosexual parents.

9. Voting Yes will support increased bias and prejudice against gays and lesbians and may be seen as permission by homophobes for violence.

10. Voting Yes enshrines, for the first time in our 230-year history, discrimination into our Bill of Rights.

As you decide as to how you will vote on this important constitutional amendment, please keep in mind that your vote does make a difference. The last election in Virginia, the recent Democratic primary, saw a turn out of only 3 ½ % - yes only 3 ½% of the eligible voters. Keep in mind that locally, in the Richmond area, Delegate Katherine Waddell won by only 40 votes against her homophobic challenger.

For some reason, only now being studied by science, the authoritatively controlled right wing conservatives are more easily marched lock step into the polls by their Republican bosses. While more independent and open minded liberals (liberal means open minded, not sissy by the way) often realize the day after the election that they forgot to vote and will have the dimwitted George Allen as their senator for an interminable six more years.

Please vote NO on the amendment.

Please vote for Jim Webb for senator.

Comments

Ron said…
I think the most important reason you mention was reason #6 -- as civil unions are widespread and this amendment could completely change the way that certain situations...like domestic abuse are handled. Basically a man and a woman living together would not be afforded ANY of the rights / conveniences that a married couple would retain.

That bright line in #5 has already turned hazy and extremely gray.
Mark said…
5.Voting Yes is in opposition to the maintaining of a bright line between church and state.

Could you refer me to the proper passage in the US Constitution that backs this up?

8. Voting Yes will hardly benefit the thousands of children in gay families nor give hope to many orphans who are passed over by heterosexual parents.

Since you like studies could you provide some stats to back up this lie?

7. Voting Yes will continue to paint Virginia as a cultural backwater and an unfriendly place for the location of new high tech businesses.

You obviously are not a Business Man, the mere growth in numbers of VA high tech firms once again makes your assumptions, clear lies.

10. Voting Yes enshrines, for the first time in our 230-year history, discrimination into our Bill of Rights.

Bill, you claim to be a 'christian', are you implying that God does Not discriminate? Are you implying that God does not call us to discern Good from Evil? Do you even read the Bible? Have you really put God First, and You last in your life?
Bill Garnett said…
Hey Mark,

Perhaps it would be useful if you were to read a bit of Thomas Jefferson, here is the beginning of his 'A Bill for Establishing Religious Freedom"

"SECTION I. Well aware that the opinions and belief of men depend not on their own will, but follow involuntarily the evidence proposed to their minds; that Almighty God hath created the mind free, and manifested his supreme will that free it shall remain by making it altogether insusceptible of restraint; that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments, or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, who being lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do, but to exalt it by its influence on reason alone; that the impious presumption of legislators and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time:"

As to the effect on children, I've provided you before the studies of the National Association of Social Workers. It is you who have provided no evidence in opposition of these studies.

As to business acumen, I do provide my resume, decades in high level consulting in top Fortune 50 companies and a stint at running my own manufacturing company. What are your qualifications?

And, as Jefferson suggests, my religious beliefs are none of your business. But if you care enough about them, stop down to Richmond and I'll discuss them with you.
Mark said…
Here ya go

Homosexual Parenting Studies Are Flawed, Report Says


Even homosexual favoring researchers admit to the flaws of their own research.

"We all have to acknowledge that when push comes to shove this is not an issue that is solved by science," he said. "It will be decided, based on beliefs and convictions."

I concure, and so should you Bill. Make a stand, I have, and I stand with God. no offense.
Mark said…
As to business acumen, I do provide my resume, decades in high level consulting in top Fortune 50 companies and a stint at running my own manufacturing company. What are your qualifications?

Territory Manager for over a decade with a Fortune 100 company. Not here to swap resumes Bill, I asked you why you lied about High Tech companies coming to VA? With your Business background, you should know better. Or at lest refrain from implying VA is filled with dumbass Rednecks and bigots, simply because they honor and fear God more than you by supporting the marriage Amend.
Bill Garnett said…
Mark,

You seem blinded by your obsession, your homophobia, your insistence that your faith trumps the faith of others – and that is exactly the position of the religious zealots we are fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I again invite you to come to Richmond and save my soul if you are truly a Christain. Or are you just another Ted Haggard type of Christain? - the devil masquerading as a preacher man.
Mark said…
I again invite you to come to Richmond and save my soul if you are truly a Christain. Or are you just another Ted Haggard type of Christain? - the devil masquerading as a preacher man.

Bill,
First and formost, I can Save no one. For you to think I can is quite revealing, and even more revealing is the fact that you condition that on whether I am a 'true' Christain or not.

Now about your Ted Haggard comment, apparently that recent news event has made you angry. False teachers and False doctrine are the in the majority Bill, not the minority. The Bible tells us that. Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."



Your invitation to Richmond could not possible be taken with any degree of sincerity based on our short e-relationship. However, if you would ever like a private conversation, I am sure that could be arranged.

Botton line Bill, it is not your same sex attractions that worry me, it is your unwillingness to come to the Cross of Christ and give Him your sins, all of them. God accepts nothing less. If we do not do that, it leads to eternal judgement before a God so Holy, we are helpless without Christ. Do you understand that? Do you understand I am in the same boat as you and every other person on earth?

God's law is perfect! It convicts our dirty death stenched rotten hearts. Until that happens, the cleansing blood of Christ cannot save us. We condemn ourselves because we held onto our pride and sought refuge in our own righteousness instead of Christ's.

I pray you understand that soon.
jamie said…
Wow, Bill, I thought my discussions over on Bacon's Rebellion with James Bowden were interesting!
Robinitaface said…
Mr. Garnett,

It seems you've had your hands full since we've "chatted" last.

Mark said:

"...Or at lest refrain from implying VA is filled with dumbass Rednecks and bigots, simply because they honor and fear God more than you by supporting the marriage Amend."

All I'm going to say is that "true Christians" are not going to broadcast, measure, or compare how much they honor God. A true Christian's relationship with God is between that person and God - it isn't anybody else's (or the goverment's) business.
Bill Garnett said…
Robin,

That was a very kind and thoughtful observation.

And calling oneself a Christian does not make one so. Matthew 7:15-16 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them”.

I know I am a Christian and I am willing to stand toe to toe against anyone who will challenge that.
Mark said…
Robin,
You say ...
All I'm going to say is that "true Christians" are not going to broadcast, measure, or compare how much they honor God. A true Christian's relationship with God is between that person and God - it isn't anybody else's (or the goverment's) business.

May I ask you Robin, how you determine a 'true christian' ? Other than that, I agree with you 100% in your second sentence. May God Bless your new Marriage.
Mark said…
I know I am a Christian and I am willing to stand toe to toe against anyone who will challenge that.

Even God?
and if so, how do you know?

I am praying for you Bill, I mean that. It ain't got nothing to do with same sex attractions etc.. It does, however, have everything to do with you laying your life down, your pride, your human wisdom, your lusts, your lies, your murders, your adultry, your stealing, your dishonor of your parents..just to name a few.

You see Bill, we are ALL guilty of all that! Only a few, will admit it and ask Christ to make them new again. That my friend is life changing, and what is considered 'born again'.

Yes we will sin again, but we now will know it! That is the process of salvation, and it can never be taken away or lost no matter how many times we screw up i.e. sin !

God Bless!
Robinitaface said…
Mark, Thank you for good wishes in my marriage. I must say though, I just don't understand how you can find peace with yourself by passing such harsh judgement on others in the name of God. Love thy neighbor, as long as they're straight, white, and Christian? I'm not sure that's what the Bible says. Unless that page in my Bible has been ripped out.
Mark said…
I must say though, I just don't understand how you can find peace with yourself by passing such harsh judgement on others in the name of God.

Robin,
Please provide me a better way of ascertaining right from wrong other than the Bible?

I have made No eternal judgements on anyone. Are you suggesting I am God by discerning Right from Wrong?

I 'find peace in myself' through faith in Christ, prayer, Bible study, daily repentence, and much more.

You mentioned God. How do you get to know Him? or is He your private god, that is subject to Your desires? :)
Mark said…
Love thy neighbor, as long as they're straight, white, and Christian?

oops, sorry I missed that little jewel of a remark.

Prove me wrong!...
since you mentioned God.

No one talked more about Hell than Jesus.

More people will go to Hell than Heaven.

Those who are saved are called by Christ to warn others that are willing to listen.

Note: The messenger will ALLWAYS be an imperfect sinner, just like me.

can't wait for your reply.
Robinitaface said…
Mark,

Many people ascertain right from wrong without using the Bible. These people include Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists (who also call themselves "Free thinkers").

The "Judgements" to which I was referring were in no way "Eternal."

I was not suggesting you were God, although your attitude in your comments lately seem to imply that *you* may think you are.

The methods by which you find peace with yourself:

*Faith in Christ: if your Faith in Christ is your own. Fabulous. If you have found it by your own thoughts and your prayers and meditation, wonderful. If someone told you that's what you were supposed to believe, and you said 'ok.' Sorry for you.

*Bible Study: Do you really *study* your Bible, and have open discussions about what it contains? Or do people tell you what it says, and what you're supposed to take from it, and you blindly follow like the proverbial sheep?

*Daily Repentance: TRUE REPENTANCE??? When you sin, and confess, and ask for forgiveness for your sins...do you learn your lessons from your sins? or do you take your confessions as a chance to just start all over again? "We are all sinners!!! It's ok!! Jesus died for our sins! It's fine!" Because what it sounds like to me, is that you take your "repentance" as a chance to be a jackass.

You seem surprised that I mentioned God. You've mentioned He and Jesus (although if you are cool with the Trinity, they are one) quite a bit. While He(?)is not my "Private God" my relationship with God is not your business, as I said before. i'm not going to broadcast it, nor compare it or insist it is better than anyone else's.

"Love thy neighbor, as long as they're straight, white, and Christian."

What makes me sick is that a comment that I made in jest pretty much sums up your entire belief system. And that belief system isn't something that you came to on your own, it's something that someone told you, and you blindly believed it. You shut your mind and your heart off to so many possibilities, while fooling yourself into thinking you're righteous. I wish you would step back and actually meditate on the words that come through your mind and your heart, and wonder if they're a) actually yours, and b) if they really sit well in your gut. Would Jesus want you to spread such hateful messages? Honestly? I don't know the answer to that. But my gut tells me 'no.' It just doesn't sit right with me. Just to see the hurt and anguish in the victim's eyes, and know that another human being has done that to them tells me that it's not right. How can it be? I don't need a Bible to tell me that.

Couldn't wait for my reply? Well there you have it.
Platypus Rex said…
1st, this is a VA debate, so has nothing to do with a US Constitutional debate, but if you'd like to look into the VA constitution and laws let's try this one.

"Be it enacted by the General Assembly, That no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinion in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."

-Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom

and I believe that that whole 1st amendment thing says something along the lines of "congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...". This, in all fairness, says that your religion has no place in our laws or in my home.

And exactly where was is that Jesus told us not to have same sex marriages, or even mention homosexuality?

There is a passage in Leviticus condeming homosexuality, and in Romans, by Paul. But never did Jesus speak out about it.

There is no honor for God in this marriage amendment. The honor here is for men of the world. Whosoever attempts to deny the right of those who seek love and companionship above anything else don't deserve our protection and love either.

Why in this commonwealth are murderers, rapists and child molesters disallowed to vote or sit on a jury, but are still allowed to marry, but we do not allow a portion of the productive, law abiding citizenry a chance at the same life?

As far as where we can find a better way to live life other than the bible? I suggest you decide everyday with every action you take whether or not you will harm someone by what you do or say. You don't need God or Christ to discern that. If you can look at me and tell me that God prefers you to judge others and to make decisions about the sins of others based on your own line of sight, then I certainly don't want any affiliation with that God.

Remember the plank in your own eye.

Should we next have a law forcing women to submit to their husbands? Should we not allow them to divorce their husbands? Should we as in Lev 19:19, not wear clothes of two different materials? Or perhaps we should give up shellfish as in Lev 11:10? Where do we draw the line as far as what rules to follow and what rules are "out of date" and simply throw out because they don't fit in with our contemporary lifestyles?

Beware the hubris of your position, Jesus was the word of God as in John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."

The Bible is never referred to as the Word of God by the Bible itself, this is a construction of man and is misleading unto itself. You must find your own truth, not the truth of your pastor, not the truth of the world, not the truth of your church or of the Republican party,which all say "we must this or we must that".

Read the words of Jesus. I would venture to say that, even the words of Paul are suspect, as only Jesus was the word of God. There you'll find that he tells you to turn the other cheek, the meek shall inherit the earth, love thy neighbor, forgive others that we may be forgiven, do not judge, lest you be judged.

The state has no right to interfer with the affiliation, orientation, or beliefs of those within its borders. It's duty is to maintain the security and physical well being of its denizens, the souls are left in other hands.

Your kingdom is not of this world, stop acting like you own it.
Bill Garnett said…
thanks platypus rex, that was quite a comment

I agree with most of what you say
Mark said…
I would venture to say that, even the words of Paul are suspect,

of course they are Rex, that's why your god does not exist.

Jesus Christ Himself, God incarnate, testifies not only to Scripture’s authority (Matt. 22:43), but to its reliability (Matt. 26:54), to its sufficiency (Luke 16:31), and finally to its finality (Matt. 4:4,7,10). Bottom line: The living Word (Jesus) bears testimony to the Written Word (the Bible).


Robin,
you write i'm not going to broadcast it, nor compare it or insist it is better than anyone else's.

That's becuase your faith is weak, you are unable to discern truth from error, and if you are ashamed to declare Christ, He also will deny you. That dear Robin has eternal consequences.

If someone told you that's what you were supposed to believe, and you said 'ok.' Sorry for you.

Or do people tell you what it says, and what you're supposed to take from it, and you blindly follow like the proverbial sheep?

Because what it sounds like to me, is that you take your "repentance" as a chance to be a jackass.
btw: That's exactly the opposite of what I preach Robin.

What makes me sick is that a comment that I made in jest pretty much sums up your entire belief system

All that said by Robin. Who indeed does not judge other. funny!

And that belief system isn't something that you came to on your own, it's something that someone told you, and you blindly believed it.

WOW, your on a roll Robin! You go girl!

Ah the utter hypocrisy! Claim there are no abolutes, then beat down the ones who say there are absolutes, with absolutes. You know, Robin, if you have studied God's word you would know He warns us of such nonesense.

Oh btw Mrs. Robin, I came to Christ on my kness, beaten, bloody, and filled with dispicables sins. Unlike many others, I laid all that down at His Cross, and gave thanks! No one told me too, no saves anyone. God and You, that's it! Very personal indeed! No matter how imperfect, stupid, sin filled other christians are around you, it is no excuse! very personal, one God, one thruth, one way, Jesus Christ.

as far as you trinity remark? God is expressed to us humans in three forms, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Have super day! :)
Mark said…
Rex,

The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution begins "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." The first part is known as the Establishment Clause. The second part is known as the Free Exercise Clause. Overall, it's perhaps the most misinterpreted sixteen words in the entire Constitution.

When the Bill of Rights was written in 1789, several states had their own religions. The Establishment Clause was written to prevent Congress from establishing a national church, which would have trumped the various state churches. The words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution, explicitly or implicitly. That phrase was found in a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists dated January 1, 1802.

The phrase "separation of church and state" wasn't introduced into American jurisprudence until 1947 by Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black (Everson v. Board of Education). This was 158 years after Congress passed the Bill of Rights.

There are three elements to the Establishment Clause. They are: (1) Congress must (2) make a law that (3) establishes a religion.

Now, show me where Congress has made a law infringing your 'rights' to interfer with the affiliation, orientation, or beliefs of those within its borders. ?

lastly you say You must find your own truth

You have got to be kidding me! Relative thinking at it's finest. Godd luck with that.
Mark said…
And exactly where was is that Jesus told us not to have same sex marriages, or even mention homosexuality?

Your right rex, you've been reading the red print in your bible haven't you? Good boy!

Unfortunately, you're still in the dark, wrong, and speaking against your creator..er never mind, we are who we are by random chance :)
Bill Garnett said…
Mark I suspect you and Ted Haggard are two of a kind.

As an inerrant Bible buff, how do you handle preaching the following?

1 Corinthians 14 33-35:

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Mark, the Earth revolves around the Sun. But it wasn't always that way. The Sun used to revolve around the Earth. It was like that for hundreds of years, until it was discovered to be otherwise, and even for a few hundred years after that. But, ultimately, after much kicking and screaming, the Earth did, in fact, begin to revolve around the Sun. Christianity was wrong about the solar system. What if it's wrong about something else, too?

I would recommend that you stop attacking, and stop being so judgmental. And start reading scripture in concert with your God given reason. It about love, wake up.
Robinitaface said…
Mr. Garnett,

This is what I was talking about in our previous 'conversation' about people's way of thinking having to be filtered. Unfortunately, we're not going to change their minds overnight.

*sigh*
Mark said…
Mark I suspect you and Ted Haggard are two of a kind

In the sense we are brothers in Christ, yes. That may include you as well Bill.

As an inerrant Bible buff, how do you handle preaching the following?

Bill, in the Corinthian church, women were speaking in tongues, interpreting, singing their songs, prophesying, and usurping the man's authority. So Paul singles them out, and reminds them that women are to take the place of submission and silence in the public service of the church.

At the beginning of verse 33, Paul sums up his discussion on the procedure for prophesying with a beautiful truth. He says, "For God is not the author of confusion but of peace...." This is the key to the whole chapter.

Our God is not a God of confusion, He is a God of peace. So, when somebody comes into your church and sees confusion, and fighting for preeminence, he will conclude that you have a confused, angry, fighting God."

Verse 34 says, "...for it is not permitted unto them to speak, but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law." What law? The law of God--the Pentateuch. In Genesis 3:16 it says that the man will rule over the woman. From the very beginning, the man was given the authority over the woman.

In 1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul said, "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." Why? Well, not because of the culture of Ephesus, or because of a problem in Timothy's town. Verses 13-14 give us the reasons: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman, being deceived, was in the transgression." In other words, this is a divine design from the beginning. You can't just slide it out the door and get rid of it on the basis of culture. It is in the law of God.

According to verse 35, if a woman has questions, she's supposed to go home and ask her husband. Now, that puts the responsibility on the husbands to get some answers, doesn't it? But that's the way God has designed it. Husbands, don't be content to give a standard answer of, "I don't know." Get some answers and be the spiritual leader in your home.


God Bless!
Robinitaface said…
Mark, do you have stock in Band-Aid? You should, from the constant scraping of your knuckles on the ground when you walk.
Platypus Rex said…
once again I beg the question, which commandments do you choose to follow and which are "no longer applicable to today's contemporary society"? What method do you use to discern the difference between the two?

Oh, and "In God We Trust"-enacted 1912

"Under God"- 1954

And just in case you were wondering...

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, 1796
Mark said…
Mark, do you have stock in Band-Aid? You should, from the constant scraping of your knuckles on the ground when you walk.

ahh Robin, you want to take it to that level? sad. Take heart dear Robin, I am still evolving.

rex,
advice, stop reading the Treaty of Tripoli, and read the Federalist and Anti Federalist papers. You may be surpised at just how highly regarded that fictional character Jesus Christ was.
Robinitaface said…
Mark, I'm surprised you would even acknowledge that Evolution takes place. But I am pleased to find we can agree on something.
Platypus Rex said…
I've read those too. So why are you including the Federalist papers in your arguement when you refuse to include the "wall of separation" arguement. You can't have it both ways. Federal law/wirtten policy or the opinion of some law makers outside of the legal realm. Which is it?
Mark said…
rex,
There are three elements to the Establishment Clause. They are: (1) Congress must (2) make a law that (3) establishes a religion.

When Congress does this, let me know. You and I both will fight it. Until then your definition of "speration of church and state" is not mine. The battle continues in our courts today.

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